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	<title>Comments on: Four Requirements for Good Arguments</title>
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	<link>http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/</link>
	<description>Philosophy, ethics, metaethics.</description>
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		<title>By: How to Become a Philosopher &#171; Ethical Realism</title>
		<link>http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/#comment-425</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[How to Become a Philosopher &#171; Ethical Realism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 00:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/?p=844#comment-425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Learn what it means to create a good argument. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Learn what it means to create a good argument. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Gray</title>
		<link>http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/#comment-321</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 22:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/?p=844#comment-321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brian Garvey,

I actually think I see the problem here. I should say &quot;illegitimately absurd&quot; instead of &quot;absurd.&quot; I will try to clarify my point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian Garvey,</p>
<p>I actually think I see the problem here. I should say &#8220;illegitimately absurd&#8221; instead of &#8220;absurd.&#8221; I will try to clarify my point.</p>
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		<title>By: James Gray</title>
		<link>http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 22:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/?p=844#comment-320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Isn’t there a contradiction between whhat you say under “absurd conclusions” and what you say under “relevant evidence”? In the former, you say (about the argument for immortality) “the conclusion is so incredible that one of the premises is almost certainly false” and then make the comment: “To have an absurd conclusion, such as the argument above, is to commit a fallacy”.

So are you saying that the mere fact that a conclusion is “absurd” is enough to show that an argument fallacious?&lt;/i&gt;

Sometimes something that looks absurd will be proven by a valid argument. Being absurd is not necessarily good reason to reject the conclusion, but it is likely to show that the argument is inadequate. The absurd conclusions I discuss here are basically those that lack the extraordinary evidence required. (My point is that extraordinary conclusions require extraordinary evidence.)

To be fallacious is not the same thing as to be false or invalid. If an argument is fallacious, it might still have a true conclusion. It is merely not good reasoning.

&lt;i&gt;If that’s the case, then why do you say: “If we find it very important to argue against someone’s conclusion, then we can do so, but we should first argue against one of the premises”? With the example: “A correct objection to the abortion argument is to challenge one of the premises”? This seems to go flat against what you said previously.&lt;/i&gt;

Why is this a contradiction? Why can&#039;t we do both?

Rejecting a premise is important, but sometimes we aren&#039;t sure which premise to reject. Sometimes an argument has plausible conclusions and an implausible conclusion. We can be uncertain that the premises are true and almost certain that the conclusion is false. The argument of this kind can be valid, but should still be rejected for being overly ambitious in a similar sense different from the other &quot;overly ambitious&quot; arguments discussed. 

In this case we should still cite evidence against premises, but we should make it clear that we don&#039;t know which premises (if any) are false. For example:

1. Many people have &quot;past life experiences&quot; that provide insightful information.
2. Either past life memories are caused by past lives or dreams.
3. It is very unlikely that a dream lead to such insightful information.
4. Therefore, some people probably have past lives.

I agree that the premises are all plausible (they seem to be more likely true than false) and we don&#039;t know which premise is false. There might be other explanations for past life experiences, or it might be false that dreams can&#039;t give insightful information. I don&#039;t want to have to reject either premise, but the premises are too uncertain to lead to the absurd conclusion that &quot;some people probably have past lives.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Isn’t there a contradiction between whhat you say under “absurd conclusions” and what you say under “relevant evidence”? In the former, you say (about the argument for immortality) “the conclusion is so incredible that one of the premises is almost certainly false” and then make the comment: “To have an absurd conclusion, such as the argument above, is to commit a fallacy”.</p>
<p>So are you saying that the mere fact that a conclusion is “absurd” is enough to show that an argument fallacious?</i></p>
<p>Sometimes something that looks absurd will be proven by a valid argument. Being absurd is not necessarily good reason to reject the conclusion, but it is likely to show that the argument is inadequate. The absurd conclusions I discuss here are basically those that lack the extraordinary evidence required. (My point is that extraordinary conclusions require extraordinary evidence.)</p>
<p>To be fallacious is not the same thing as to be false or invalid. If an argument is fallacious, it might still have a true conclusion. It is merely not good reasoning.</p>
<p><i>If that’s the case, then why do you say: “If we find it very important to argue against someone’s conclusion, then we can do so, but we should first argue against one of the premises”? With the example: “A correct objection to the abortion argument is to challenge one of the premises”? This seems to go flat against what you said previously.</i></p>
<p>Why is this a contradiction? Why can&#8217;t we do both?</p>
<p>Rejecting a premise is important, but sometimes we aren&#8217;t sure which premise to reject. Sometimes an argument has plausible conclusions and an implausible conclusion. We can be uncertain that the premises are true and almost certain that the conclusion is false. The argument of this kind can be valid, but should still be rejected for being overly ambitious in a similar sense different from the other &#8220;overly ambitious&#8221; arguments discussed. </p>
<p>In this case we should still cite evidence against premises, but we should make it clear that we don&#8217;t know which premises (if any) are false. For example:</p>
<p>1. Many people have &#8220;past life experiences&#8221; that provide insightful information.<br />
2. Either past life memories are caused by past lives or dreams.<br />
3. It is very unlikely that a dream lead to such insightful information.<br />
4. Therefore, some people probably have past lives.</p>
<p>I agree that the premises are all plausible (they seem to be more likely true than false) and we don&#8217;t know which premise is false. There might be other explanations for past life experiences, or it might be false that dreams can&#8217;t give insightful information. I don&#8217;t want to have to reject either premise, but the premises are too uncertain to lead to the absurd conclusion that &#8220;some people probably have past lives.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: An Argument Against God, a Teapot, and Garvey&#8217;s Objection &#171; Ethical Realism</title>
		<link>http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/#comment-319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[An Argument Against God, a Teapot, and Garvey&#8217;s Objection &#171; Ethical Realism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 21:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/?p=844#comment-319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] where I talk about &#8220;evidence&#8221; and &#8220;overly ambitious conclusions&#8221; found at http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/ for more [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] where I talk about &#8220;evidence&#8221; and &#8220;overly ambitious conclusions&#8221; found at <a href="http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/" rel="nofollow">http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/</a> for more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Garvey</title>
		<link>http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/#comment-317</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Garvey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 17:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/?p=844#comment-317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t there a contradiction between whhat you say under &quot;absurd conclusions&quot; and what you say under &quot;relevant evidence&quot;? In the former, you say (about the argument for immortality) &quot;the conclusion is so incredible that one of the premises is almost certainly false&quot; and then make the comment: &quot;To have an absurd conclusion, such as the argument above, is to commit a fallacy&quot;.

So are you saying that the mere fact that a conclusion is &quot;absurd&quot; is enough to show that an argument fallacious?

If that&#039;s the case, then why do you say: &quot;If we find it very important to argue against someone’s conclusion, then we can do so, but we should first argue against one of the premises&quot;? With the example: &quot;A correct objection to the abortion argument is to challenge one of the premises&quot;? This seems to go flat against what you said previously.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t there a contradiction between whhat you say under &#8220;absurd conclusions&#8221; and what you say under &#8220;relevant evidence&#8221;? In the former, you say (about the argument for immortality) &#8220;the conclusion is so incredible that one of the premises is almost certainly false&#8221; and then make the comment: &#8220;To have an absurd conclusion, such as the argument above, is to commit a fallacy&#8221;.</p>
<p>So are you saying that the mere fact that a conclusion is &#8220;absurd&#8221; is enough to show that an argument fallacious?</p>
<p>If that&#8217;s the case, then why do you say: &#8220;If we find it very important to argue against someone’s conclusion, then we can do so, but we should first argue against one of the premises&#8221;? With the example: &#8220;A correct objection to the abortion argument is to challenge one of the premises&#8221;? This seems to go flat against what you said previously.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: How to Teach Philosophy &#171; Ethical Realism</title>
		<link>http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[How to Teach Philosophy &#171; Ethical Realism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/?p=844#comment-227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] them about formal logic, requirements for good arguments, justification, and fallacies. Tell them how these things are relevant to their lives and [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] them about formal logic, requirements for good arguments, justification, and fallacies. Tell them how these things are relevant to their lives and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: How to Get an A in a Philosophy Class &#171; Ethical Realism</title>
		<link>http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[How to Get an A in a Philosophy Class &#171; Ethical Realism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 09:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/?p=844#comment-222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Know a little about what good arguments are. In particular, (i) formal logic, (ii) requirements of good arguments, (iii) justification, and (iv) terrible ways to [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Know a little about what good arguments are. In particular, (i) formal logic, (ii) requirements of good arguments, (iii) justification, and (iv) terrible ways to [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Four More Fallacies &#171; Ethical Realism</title>
		<link>http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/four-requirements-for-good-arguments/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Four More Fallacies &#171; Ethical Realism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com/?p=844#comment-217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] ergo absurdum fallacy is a way of reversing the burden of proof by having overly ambitious conclusions. I [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ergo absurdum fallacy is a way of reversing the burden of proof by having overly ambitious conclusions. I [...]</p>
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